Sacramento Women Leaders Association Chapter Meeting: Handling Difficult Conversations

Okay. So, we're going to go ahead and and move on to our keynote. Uh Sherry, but Sherry, before I ask you to come on the line, I'm going to go go ahead and do a global mute. We've been having a little background noise. Uh so, just bear with me for a second.
All guests have been muted. You can unmute your line by pressing star six. So, we're going to go ahead and and start with our next keynote, handling difficult conversations with confidence. Uh, and Sherry, do I have you on the line?
You do. I'm here. Oh, great. Great. So, I'm going to hand you over the floor and you just let us know when you want us to advance the slide. Okay. I sure will. Well, thank you, Shellyley, and the rest of the group um for this privilege and opportunity to speak into the lives of so many of you leaders. If you could go back to that other screen first, I don't have my bio in front of me, Shelley. Oh, thank you. All right. So, um it's a privilege to speak into the lives of so many of you leaders choosing to enrich your professional careers. However, I'm sure that after you're done listening with this, the information that you uh hear from my presentation could very well benefit you in your personal lives as well.
A little bit about me. I have been in HR for 20 years. Uh most of my experience has been in the construction industry and then I went over to Lowe's for about almost five years which really you think about that that's construction as well. It's all about people that want to better their homes get tools and whatnot home improvement projects. Then I went to sin toss and after sin toss I have found a job at Old Dominion Freight Lines as an area HR manager and I've been there for two years. Old Dominion Freight Line is a logistics transportation company and during this pandemic we were considered
uh critical infrastructure workers and so we were really never affected by the pandemic except that our our business kind of blew up. In fact, uh we had to deliver all of the critical supplies to the medical field and whatnot throughout the country so that they could stay safe for the rest of the general public. I have a husband and four children. I have four grandchildren, but just last weekend we found out what our fifth grandchild is is we're going to have a little girl. So, we will have five grandchildren at in February of this year coming up. and I have a little dog and I am working from home and so you may hear him bark a little bit.
I I apologize for that. I live in Carmichael which is a little suburb from Sacramento. My interest outside of work is to spend time with family and friends. I do make time as some of our other panelists suggested. It's very important to make time away from work with your family and friends. One of my passions is truly cycling. I am a a cyclist that took up the sport probably about seven years ago and about a year and a half ago I finished my first century ride and that was grueling but it was an achievement that I'm very proud of. I did that with my son and uh so cycling has been a big important part of my life.
What I'm most motivated by professionally is training and developing leaders. I find a huge passion in being able to help develop leaders so that they can be great assets to their team. And something you wouldn't know about me is I am also a scuba diver. And when I was a child, uh a teenager actually, I lived in Thailand because my father was in the military. So, I uh I have a a very diverse um background and what we're going to do today is talk about handling difficult conversations with confidence. So, let's get started. Handling difficult conversations with confidence. So, next slide.
What I'd like to do is sort of define what difficult conversations with confidence really mean. So let's first define what difficult is. Needing much effort or skill to accomplish, deal with or understand. So that's difficult. You need much effort to understand what it is that you're going to accomplish. And conversation, it's a talk between two or more people. It's not a conversation in your mind or by yourself. And confidence, the feeling of self asssurance. So, how do you get that? Well, we we go through answering these four questions. Why is it difficult to have difficult conversations? So, we're going to address that as we go forward. What is the point of having difficult conversations? How to deal with difficult conversations and when having difficult conversations you should do what?
All right, slide three. Even the most experienced leaders can feel nervous about having a difficult conversation. Realing that realizing that is okay. It to be nervous is natural. It's half the battle to realize it. It's how we overcome that nervousness is where we win. It's all about preparation. Slide four.
So, let's talk about why is it difficult to have difficult conversations. Being unprepared is one of the biggest the biggest hurdles that we need to overcome. So what we need to do is start with what you want to accomplish. When you're prepared, you decide what is it that you want your end game to be. What is it that that the that you want to have brought to the table that when you walk out of that room there's an understanding between you and the parties that you're dealing with. So you ask yourself why. Why is it important? What is the reason why you're having the conversation? What do you want to get out of it in the end?
And what outcomes would resolve the situation? You want to be ready to discuss and possibly come to a common ground understanding. Being prepared doesn't mean you get what you want. It means you come with the facts you have, but are prepared for a twist if it comes. And believe me, twists definitely do come. An example that I can tell you comes to mind from me is that there was a manager and I that we were going to administer a step of discipline to an employee for attendance and as we were in the meeting this employee countered a lot of what the dates were that he was being account he that he was being held accountable for.
However, we had his entire call off calendar with us with his reasons that he gave every time he called in. And as he as as we showed him those those dates and the reasons that he gave, he stopped countering and decided that we were prepared and then he signed the document. So being prepared is really what's important.
If we hadn't done that research first that we came to the meeting prepared, we wouldn't have we we probably would have had a different result. So until it's really clear while you're why you're having the conversation and what the end result you're looking for, don't have it until you're prepared. Do your research and homework first. It will really save a lot of embarrassment and it will your end result can be a lot more smoother once you come prepared. Slide five.
So continuing with why it is difficult to have that difficult conversation. Another reason is that the wrong environment has been chosen. So, you want to choose a place where it's comfortable for everyone, where it allows an open and honest discussion. So, I'm going to give you another story. People that know me in my trainings, I love a lot of stories because people can tend to relate to them. I had a manager who once wanted to have his difficult conversation in his office. His office had a big huge window with no window coverings and it looked straight out onto an area where many others could see right into his office. So, how do you think that made that employee feel?
The the manager's back was to the the window and the employee was looking out through the window so everyone could see into the office and see that employee. I'm sure he wasn't very comfortable and really didn't open up at first. So, what we ended up doing was moving the move the meeting up to a more private room and the results happened. So, remember it's not just about our comforts. It's about everyone's about everyone and getting to an end result that's palatable. Put yourself in the pos position of the other person. How would you like to be treated? Just think about that. It's the basic rule. Do unto others as you would like them to do unto you.
The end results will be a lot better if you treat others the way you want to be treated. So slide six. So we'll we'll still continue with the why. Not having a basic structure for the conversation. What's your framework? Make a decision. It shows you're prepared and not just winging it. Remember when I gave you the example of the manager who uh when we were in there talking with the the the
employee about his attendance and we came prepared. So that really helped to mitigate any sort of adverse reactions because we were really able to prepare ourselves for that meeting. But I'm going to give you another story about how someone winged it and the end result was a little different. So I have a story about an ops manager and a driver. So again, we are a a transportation industry. We have a lot of drivers that drive across uh a lot of the country, a lot of our state of California. And I had an ops manager and it was a complete train wreck after this this uh reaction. What he did was instead of stepping back and gathering all his facts, he uh he reacted.
So the driver became pretty belligerent and was cussing and yelling and said, 'It's not my job.' to this ops manager. And the ops manager reacted immediately. He responded back in the same exact way. He started raising his voice, yelling, and uh luckily for him, he didn't cuss back and create a whole lot of other strife and turmoil. But consequently the manager and his manager and I had to have that difficult conversation with that mana with that ops manager. How we react really sets the stage. So if we step back and do our best to look at all sides objectively then getting to the root and reaching a conclusion can be more attainable. Step back, take a deep breath and don't react.
It may be the first thing we want to do, but it's not the most productive. All right, slide seven. All right, so the second point is what is the point of having this difficult conversation? Remember, we have to first know why we're having the conversation. Once we know that then it is very easy to know what is the point aspect. If we don't address bad behavior and set clear concise expectations then what is our organization then then what is our organ organization at risk of? There's risk. So where's the risk? It's low morale, lost revenue, and a poor reputation for the company and leadership, ultimately costing the business tremendously in all different aspects. Therefore, handling these types of conversations well is paramount in mitigating any type of risk.
Slide eight. So continuing with what is the point basically it's so you can discuss what you've observed tell your truth from what you've observed. It doesn't necessarily mean that you physically observed it though, but through your extensive research because remember you've gone into the why and what your end result you want. You've observed a pattern of behavior or so on. You don't have to physically observe it, but your extensive research will give you uh what you can observe as a pattern. When having your conversation, get straight to the point. Don't fluff it up. explain the effect of the behavior and not put the person on the defense and always speak with compassion and care. I'm going to tell you, when you speak with compassion and care, you will get better results.
There's always a root. We'd like to find out what the root is, but we're not going to not address behavior. So, attendance is something we deal with a lot at our at our company, and really, it's been throughout my whole HR career. And we look for patterns of behavior. We ask a lot of why. We offer support via our employee assistance program. But bottom line, we always discuss the impact that poor attendance has on the team, on the location, and to our customers because poor attendance affects all of that. It's not just what it does to them and maybe potentially their paycheck, but it does affect the whole entire global effect of the business. But we want to speak with care about about uh speak with care to them, but we want to really state what the expectations are.
Slide nine. So, how do we deal with difficult conversations? When we come to the meeting prepared, know our facts, and the meeting place is conducive for everyone, then the how is less cumbersome. I I go into meetings with bullet points written out. So, I'll go in with my notes and I'll even try to recognize some barriers. A lot of times what I'll do with my managers and my leaders is I role play with them. I'll anticipate what's what some of the rebuttals will be. I've done this job long enough that I pretty much know what a lot of those rebuttals are. So, I roleplay those rebuttals with my leaders because believe it or not, there are rebuttals and if you're not prepared, you'll flounder around and then it it's it's not a very productive meeting.
So, when the strategy has been reviewed, then the possibility of the unexpected and the unknown is less apt to happen. But again, it's being prepared. However, there's always that chance of a curveball. Believe me, those curve balls come. be ready for that. So, on occasions, I've had to end the meeting to reconvene at a later date because of the unexpected info given to me in that meeting. Do your research and be a woman of your word and follow up though. It's really important to follow up. It's okay to say, you know what, you've given me some facts that I wasn't prepared for. I didn't I didn't uh know that or however you want to address those new facts that's come into the meeting.
But always follow through and follow up. Got to be a woman of your word. All right. Slide se slide 10. When having a difficult conversation, you should do this. Have confidence. Don't go to the meeting unprepared. That's how you have confidence. You go in there with your notes, your bullet points. If the if you go in there unprepared, your meeting is destined to fall flat on its face. So, you don't want that. You want to save face. Remember my story about that ops manager and that driver when we ended up having to have that difficult conversation with the manager as well. If he didn't first walk away and evaluate the incident and address address it in a more neutral mindset, we would have had a different outcome.
So we can be direct and get to the point quickly, but we must also be unemotional have an une unemotional delivery position. That ops manager allowed himself to get emotional. Once you get emotional, you lose you lose credibility and you lose the point of what you're trying to make when you're having these difficult conversations. So in other words, you want to have confidence and think below before you react. Frame the conversation in a positive or neutral light and don't allow yourself to react.
Slide 11. So in conclusion, you want to recognize your strengths and weaknesses because we all have strengths and we all have weaknesses. As long as you recognize that and you when you come to the having your difficult conversations, it'll go a lot smoother. You want to always stay calm and diffuse emotionally charged situations. There will always be some emotions that will happen, especially when you have those difficult conversations. So, be ready for those. You want to look beyond the immediate situation and get to the root of the problem. There's always a root. The there's always a reason why. And it doesn't mean that it's acceptable. It just gives a more rounded clearer picture of the behavior.
and find a mutually acceptable and sustainable solution. That means you want to talk between the both of you. It's a discussion. It's not a dictatorship. Yes, you will lay out the ground rules more or less. You will set the expectations, but you also want to know how you can come to an acceptable and sustainable solution. Because when it's a partnership, then you will achieve the results a lot easier when that other party becomes a part of the solution. Next slide.
And to continue in conclusion, be prepared. It leads to confidence when having that difficult conclusion or conversation. You want to recognize your own personal communication style because we all have them. You want to stay away from counterproductive words and actions where emotions can become fully engaged because that definitely will happen. Remain respectful and find a mutually acce acceptable solution. At times it's okay to agree to disagree. Next slide.
So, I'm open to questions and answers, but again, thank you for your time. It's been a privilege and an honor to speak to you today. And Sherry, thank you for uh putting together this fabulous presentation. Uh I love all the points that you made in there. I would encourage if anybody has a live question that they would like to ask you, you can hit star six on your keypad now. Um or of course you can type your question but on the slide by choosing comment once you click there. Uh let's just give them a couple of uh seconds to see if anybody has a live question. So again that's star six to ask a live question uh directly to our keynote.
All right. Um, so I'll go ahead and read off some of the questions that came in. Uh, we seem to have a a bit of a quiet crowd today, which is fine. I'm more than happy to read questions. Uh, so the first question I have for you, Sherry, any special tips for the termination conversation?
Well, by the time you get to That's an excellent question. And by the time you come to that termination and unless it's so egregious and even if it's egregious then uh the the the person will pretty much know that it's got to that termination. But what what I suggest to all my leaders is do your research first. And when you have progressive discipline in place, those steps of discipline should go very smoothly along the the progress in the path. And like what I what what I um suggest to all of my leaders is that no writeup should be a surprise to anyone. If we do our research and we get their point of view by doing our investigation and we ask what is it that happened and get their side of the story, then when we come to the point that we've got to that step of discipline, that shouldn't be a surprise.
And if we go through the steps of discipline properly, then when we get to that termination, that shouldn't be a surprise either. And basically, it's a it's it's another very respectful conversation. We say, you know, we've we've gone through we've done our investigation. We have found our uh we have uh determined that we have some credit credible facts. We've got we've received your statement. And at this time we've decided that uh we will uh terminate the relationship the employment relationship due to uh uh um violation of company policy. Uh basically a lot of times it's a violation of company policy or or you know unsafe practices not reporting a uh accident. So, so it's not we're not bringing somebody into the office and saying you're fired.
We've done our due diligence and done our research before we've gotten to that to that conversation. And a lot of times that can happen very quickly because we've already got a lot of facts, but we will definitely get their side of the story before the termination actually happens.
Thank you for that excellent answer. Um, so I have another written question that's come in, Sherry. uh how do you uh broker a conversation between two employees who aren't getting along? What's the best approach for that? Oh, great question. And I have that happen a lot. So, a lot of times they'll come to come to leadership or HR individually. So and so doesn't like me. I don't like the way so and so is treating me. They're giving me the cold shoulder today. And so we talk with each one of them individually first. We get each one of their stories. Okay. What's going on? Tell me what led to this. And I'm going to tell you, a lot of times it's a there's a root.
It's something that happened that was so small, such as such a a long time ago or a little while ago that uh when we get to the root, we can really help mitigate that risk of a a poor working relationship. However, once we do that, then what we do is we bring the two together and in the room together, we we have them speak to each other. Instead of trying to play the mediator and being in between individually, I'm the mediator with them both in the room and we have them air out their air out their differences and their conflicts with each other. And then we talk them through and we work through them and we ask what is the root?
what really is the reason why why do you feel this way? Feelings are are very important to see why people feel the way they are. So yeah, I I get them in the room together after I speak to them to them individually.
Absolutely. It sounds like a best practice there. Just put them in the room as quickly as possible and get down Yeah. down to there for lack of a better word at the moment. Um I agree with that totally. So I have two other questions that have come in. First question that's come in, how are you currently dealing with those employees and drivers who refuse to wear a mask? Do you have some policies or best practices or advice that you could uh share with us? Great question. Uh well, they don't really have the right or the the opportunity maybe I should say to refuse that. We have the a law here in the state of California where it says that they have to if uh if they have a medical reason why they are not wearing the mask.
Uh we have asked for a note from their doctor uh stating why they are are um exempt from wearing the mask because we deal with a lot of food products. we can't have uh people not wearing masks because we deliver to grocery stores or distribution centers, that sort of thing. And so we need to know why. And if they if they are exempt, then they would not get that delivery. So basically, they would have to give us evidence that they are exempt via a doctor's note.
And if they don't, then then we go Yeah. Then we go through the dis the pro progressive discipline process. Absolutely. Thank you so much for answering that question. And one last question. Uh Lori writes the following. Any advice on speaking to someone who wants a promotion that you have told them that they are not suited for specifically wants to supervise people but is not suited to do it. Very re reactive person but excellent trainer. Okay. So, that's a great question and I have leaders that are like that and I coach them. I I'm honest with them. One of the best policies is honesty. They will respect you when you're honest with them, but remember, you have to do it with care.
And so, I tell them where their weaknesses are and I I I take it straight down to me. I say, 'We all have weaknesses and we all have strengths.' And I do a SWAT analysis. I talk about their SWAT their strengths, their weaknesses, their opportunities, and their threats. And basically, we go through that little diagram and and and it's a partnership with them. I ask them, 'What do they think their weaknesses are?' And then I tell them what I think their weaknesses are, where do they think their strengths are. So, we go through this whole analysis with them, and then I will advise them to get some training. We have we have excellent training courses within Old Dominion.
We also have some external resources that we utilize to send people to that we feel could I if we if we could develop them a little bit better or stronger, then they would be a good resource for us as far as progressing through the uh the leadership uh process. But uh I'm honest with them. I have to if if they really feel like they could be a leader and they want to supervise people, I get them to admit where they feel their weaknesses are and then we build on that.
Thank you for that, Sherry. Uh great information. Again, a fabulous uh presentation full of uh key facts, practical information. Uh so I appreciate you taking the time out to spend with us uh this afternoon. That's awesome. Thank you so much. I I'd like to leave you with a just just a a couple thoughts. I have a quote of one of my all-time favorite actresses, Judy Garland, and she says, 'Always be a first rate version of yourself instead of a second rate version of somebody else else. Great things happen when women help each other.' And I challenge you to go out and make a positive difference in the lives of others. Thank you again for this opportunity.
Be safe and stay