San Francisco Women Leaders Association Chapter Meeting: Negotiation Mastery

[Music] Well, now we are going to go to our next presentation. And Shannon, can you say hello? Hello. Hello. Can you all hear me? Yes. You sound wonderful. Wonderful. Well, I will share my screen here and we are going to dive into uh salary negotiation tactics. So, thank you so much for having me here. Um, we are going to dive in. But first off, who am I? So, by day, I am the chief advancement officer for Pacific Northwest Research Institute, which is a 68-year-old genetics and genomics institute here in Seattle. And then I also have a side business called Monsoon Leadership. And I founded Monsoon Leadership because I really saw people struggling in their job search and trying to figure out a job that really fits them. And I had personally helped so many of my friends and colleagues negotiate 30, 40K more in their salary when they change jobs and they're like, you really need to start teaching this. So this is what I do is I teach this a lot and I'm so happy to speak with you all today. So, I definitely call myself a salary whisperer and a career advancement coach to help people really find that right next step in their career. I also have a million hobbies. Uh, you can see my Zoom background. So, I do love design. Uh, and I do like pretty slides, which you will see. So, there's definitely some hard truths. Most employers will lowball you on your salary, and that is pervasive across all industries. So most of my clients are in nonprofit, but I also serve corporate um individuals as well. And the behaviors are pretty similar. So trying to get labor for as cheap as possible. Um but the silver linings is you can always negotiate for more money. And we're going to talk through specific strategies and tactics that will help you uh increase your salary. So, um, if you want to drop in the chat so we can kind of start talking through some of the concerns that people have that I definitely want to make sure to address and when we do the Q&A, we will dig into all the juicy questions because there's always juicy questions about money. Um, oh, the move of the chat over here. So, what scares you the most about negotiating your salary? And really naming that is important. Um, you know, money it's complicated and our sense of self-worth, it gets really complicated. I always say every time I do this presentation, we start talking about workplace trauma because anytime we felt undervalued and underpaid, that cuts pretty deep. So, it's good to start naming those fears and then we're going to address them. So, there are two times to increase your salary. If you love your job, if you want to stay at your job, or frankly, you need to stay at your job because there's a lot of other stuff going on in your life, then you want to really work towards a raise and promotion. But if you're like, you know what? Um, I love that Karen talked about when you're feeling bored, that's a really good point to know when to change jobs because you want to continuously grow. You want to grow your talents and skills. And so sometimes, or you're in a toxic workplace and it's time to move to a new job. So, there's actually different strategies for these two opportunities. So, we're going to talk through both of them. And I really appreciate uh some of the notes in the in the chat about fears, you know, of job loss. Absolutely. I think so many times people are afraid to ask for more because of what if they take it all away. But the thing is, if you don't ask for more, they're not going to give it. So, when we're talking about a raise and promotion, the harsh truth is very, very rarely will your boss initiate a raise or promotion for you. Now, I do as a manager and leader, and I'm working to train many managers and leaders because I talk a lot about staff retention. This is a huge issue, especially in nonprofits right now. Um, I'm a fundraiser. We have a lot of staff retrition right now. So, I'm really working with managers and leaders on staff retention, paying people more each year as part of that. But if you want a promotion, if you're like, I'm ready. I'm ready to grow. It's what I recommend is that you bring it up with your manager and you start those conversations one year in advance. And that may seem extreme, but it tells it gives them enough time to advocate for your behalf because all a salary negotiation is is a collaboration. It's working together to solve a problem. You want to stay at this organization. You want to grow in your career, and that requires a different title, responsibilities, and salary, and you're going to work together to do that. But if you spring it all of a sudden on your annual review, there's just not enough time. It's like, oh, we just approved the budget last week. I can't put the raise in there. So, we want to talk through all the different ways that you can prepare your boss to advocate for your raise and promotion. So, one thing to think about is if you are looking for a bigger bump in salary, internal raises and promotions usually are about 10,000 or less. So, every once in a while you can get more, but if you're like, oo, I'm looking at my finances. I'm looking at my near-term goals and I really need to be making 30K or more. The best thing to do is then to switch jobs because that's going to be a little bit more achievable than an internal raise and promotion unless you guys are having a really great year in the organization and there might be some room but most of the time that's changing to a new job. So yeah so let's talk through the strategy. So I do a lot of training on being in curating your career, being in the driver's seat of your career. And part of that is knowing your path. So like knowing your field, like what is that next title? What does that look like? What are those skills that I need to have to be able to sit in that director's seat for the first time? So I think you should always be having your job announcements being sent to you. always be looking at them so that you know if you're on track. You know if you fall behind in a salary range. Your boss isn't going to tell you, "Oh, we've fallen behind market value." You need to know that. And you need to know what are those projects that I need to be asking for so I'm set up for that to be competitive for that bigger job that I want next. So this is just always keeping an eye on this, always being ready for that next step and really building your professional network, coming to events like this and meeting other people that are also striving for more. It's super motivating. Hold on. Okay, so we want to start talking one year in advance. So you want to express your desire to grow early on. So Oh, are you seeing the slide deck now? Let me know if you Okay, great. Yeah, it looks great. Okay, just making sure. I saw a note in the chat. Um, so why one year in advance, you know, coming to your manager and saying, you know, I'm really happy here. I love, you know, working here for this, this, and this reason, but I'm really feeling like I'm ready for that next step. I'd like to supervise a staff member for the first time. I'd like to lead a project for a first time. I'd love to really learn how to do uh expenditure reports or grant proposals or whatever it is that you want to learn and grow and bring them in um bring them in with you. Okay. Not sure what's going on, but it sounds like some people are only seeing the intro slide. So, Jinger, I'll leave that to you. I am not I see the start talking slide. Start talking when you're in advance. Okay. Yes. Okay. Everybody in the chat, let us know if you are are seeing the wrong thing because we want to make sure you can see the slides and definitely Ginger, you can send out the slides um as well because I have You know what? Try to share them one more time. I think it Yeah. No, I think it looks good now. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry you guys have missed all the slides. I had so much on there. Thank you for letting us know. Um it looks like there was something that had to happen on the back end. So, um, Ginger, we'll be sure to send out these slides so everybody can have all the juicy details on there. Yes. Cool. All right. Well, this is the best slide anyways because we need to know all the things we're doing a year in advance. So, as you're expressing your desire to grow, you want to work in partnership with your supervisor so that they can give you those stretch projects to show that you have the skills for that role. Provide any professional development you need to do. Do you need to go to specific conferences, workshops? you need to get a certification, all of those different things. Working together on that, making sure that you had the budget for that, that they can pay for that. And they can start floating the idea of your promotion to their supervisor because there's a whole level of advocacy that they have to do. And they need time, especially if you know that maybe they don't get along that great with their supervisor. They're going to need to do a delicate dance with them to advocate for you. And then the last step is they really need to build next year's budget to include your raise and so that that is already built in. So by the time you get to your annual review pretty much done because you guys have been working together on it all year and you can use that time to celebrate. So one thing I love to talk a lot about is thinking beyond salary. Now salary is the most important. That is how you pay your bills. That's how you afford your life. So, you know, you can't pay your bills on free lunch and a gym membership, but your salary is super important. But if for some reason they can't get you to that salary number, or it's $5,000 or less, which you're barely going to feel after your after taxes on your paycheck, then you want to start talking about other options. Would they consider an annual bonus like a retention or a project based bonus? Or would they additional PTO? maybe they could give you an extra week of PTO. If you didn't know, PTO, paytime off, is actually a financial line item on a P&L sheet. So, it is a financial liability. So, it is a financial perk. So, you can ask for additional PTO, a higher 401k match. If you're at a for-profit, you could talk about stock options and equity, especially if you're at a startup. flexible work hours or extra professional development funds or a coach, which I um when I tell people that work at nonprofits that have a lot of government grants, they usually can access this one a little bit easier, the professional development funds or a coach. But it feel really really critical that you feel like you're compensated fairly because if not, resentment will grow and it's time to go. And that's the hard truth. It can be really depressing to do this work over a year and they deny you the promotion or they lowball you on the offer. And my best advice is to leave this situ in this situation is to leave your job. They've shown you what they think you are worth and it does not match your inner sense of worth. And so now you know and it's time to go. And we'll talk through what that looks like. Okay. So, I see a question in the Oh, well, hold on. Let's do the silver lining parts. You can make more money switching jobs, and that's the and that's the the reality. Hold on. So, quick Q&A with internal promotions and raises. I see that Kayla, thank you for uh a question in the chat. What is a newer trend you have seen in the past years? I'm beginning a job search after being with a company for 10 years. And then Carolyn is dropping in. LinkedIn shows some she's dropping in some career progressions. So the I would say uh in the last 10 years LinkedIn is so important. So really having your LinkedIn be as robust and up toate as your resume is really really important. Having your recommendations in there, having it really fleshed out so that people can go see a full picture of who you are, especially as a leader. um really recommend having those recommendations filled out so people can see that you are um a mentor, a coach, and a valued member of the community you serve. So I would say that is a big um change in the job search in the last 10 years. And let me know if you have any more specific questions from there. I don't see any other questions and I have so little time so I'm going to just keep going but keep dropping them in chat. I've got them on my other screen. So when you're talking about landing a new job, this is when you can do big jumps. So this is when you can increase you know um 20 30 40 50k even uh depending on your jump. So this is especially valuable if maybe you had taken a pay cut earlier um or maybe you taken a break from working or you're feeling behind that number you should be at. And that's really keeping an eye on the job market, keeping an eye on what people are being paid at similar titles in your region so that you even know if you're falling behind, but also just knowing can you afford your life in the stage that you're in. Sometimes life is more expensive than others. Sometimes you want to buy a house or start a family or take care of elderly parents or take that dream vacation while your body can do it. Doesn't matter. You need the money. Let's get you it. You deserve it. All right. So we kind of talked through that keeping an eye on everything, building your professional network and making sure you are taking on high impact projects at work. If you are just being fed tedious tasks and that is not going to hit your resume with sparkling statistics and stories, you have a problem and you need to work on advocating for those higher impact projects at your current job so that you're not going into a job search and you just kind of have a dud of a resume from this position, you know? So, always working with your supervisor to be like, hey, can I lead that project? Actually, yes, I would love to be a part of that. So you have those sparkling gems on your resume that help you stand out. All right. So this is that same slide as before. So charting your path because it's the exact same curating your career, knowing exactly where you are at, what you know what is that next step. So I'm going to skip out of that so we can keep going. So this is kind of what I was talking about um with LinkedIn always being ready. You never know when your dream job is going to come to you. You never know when your friend's going to afford you that job. And you also never know when your workplace is going to turn sour. New leadership comes in, mergers, acquisitions, shifts, downsizing, whatever. And you want to have the the power to change jobs at any time. So, keeping your LinkedIn up to date with your latest accomplishments, writing those recommendations all the time, and you know, when you have those projects that really go well at work and those great statistics, just keep your resume at the ready and drop them in there so you're not like, "Oh my god, what was my donor retention rate? What was that?" you know, just always curating your career at all times so you're ready to go and it doesn't feel like, oh my god, I haven't pulled out that resume in years and now this, you know, job window is going to shut in two days and I got to pull it together and it's so stressful and overwhelming that you don't apply, you know. So, just really curating it at all times and then building your professional network always. Most of your best jobs are going to come through your network. So always curating that, cultivating that, taking care of that. All right. So the magic starts to happen at the verbal offer. So they call you, they offer you the job, it's really exciting, but what if it's slower than you were expecting? So you really want to think about I always tell my clients, think about what your lowest number is. Don't tell them your lowest number. always request at least I say about 20,000 higher than your lowest number. So say they give you 10 less than that, you're still in that range, right? And you're not going below your lowest number. So you'll be happy wherever you're at. But if you say your lowest number and then they go lower than that, then you're not getting what you really need for this stage of your life, right? Um so you never have to reveal your current salary. You're just revealing your salary expectations. And if the verbal offer comes lower than you're expecting, you can prepare to counter offer. And knowing what your top priorities are, because you may not get it all. Is it salary? Is it bonus? And I see there's a question in the chat about bonuses. I'm going to get to that in just a minute. You know, is it that flexible work hours? Is it that work from home? Whatever it is that knowing your priorities and knowing what your non-negotiables are is going to help you stay calm and focused and really strategic in um the verbal offer. So, you absolutely have to get it in writing. Every single thing in writing. If it does not exist in writing, it doesn't exist. Um, I had a a friend who, you know, they were like, "Hey, here's your starting salary and you'll get this bonus a year from now. No, excuse me. You'll get this raise a year from now and your salary will be that." And it wasn't in writing and then they froze all the raises and she's been there 3 years and hasn't gotten a raise. So, people will offer all kinds of stuff in a verbal offer, but you need to get in writing if you ever want to have anything to go back to and say, "Hey, you promised me this. I'd love to talk about if we can bring that back on the table." So, if the offer comes back lower than you're expecting, you can say something like, "Uh, thank you so much for this offer. I'm so excited about this opportunity. Um, this number was a little bit lower than I was expecting. Is there room to negotiate? Is there room to go a little higher?" and I'm happy to talk through a mix of salary and bonus to get us closer to that number. But really coming in a spirit of collaboration and working together, you know, or I was expecting to be a little bit closer to middle of the range and this looks to be at the low end of the range. Could we work together to get closer to that number? So, thinking beyond salary. So, again, checking the offer for other perks and request them if they're missing. So, if there's not a bonus structure uh built in, especially if you're a director and above, you should have a bonus structure built in. Um, so that can be a performance-based bonus, that could be a retention bonus, or at certain levels of leadership, it can be a signing bonus, which usually has a retention clause attached to it. A healthy PTO amount, you know, your 401k, Roth IRA match, stock options, equity, flexible work hours, hybrid, remote, extra professional development funds, and a coach, and community or health stipens. You can also ask about what are the opportunities for growth here. What are those future raise structures look like and the COLA percentage and the ORG wide professional development because those all go into, you know, how you think about is this a good offer, you know, and you can always walk away from a bad offer. Can always walk away. And that's why I recommend, you know, really interviewing at multiple places because you might get two offers at once. And what a great place to be at because then you can really pick the one that fits your life the best. All right, so I want to dive into some of these questions and please drop more in the chat because I wanted to give plenty of time because there's always very specific questions. Um, can you talk about bonus versus pay raise? What is the benefit for employer? Is there a difference in taxes? So, you know, uh, bonuses do get hit pretty hard with taxes as the person who receives them. Um, sometimes bonuses are a separate check and sometimes they're combined with your regular payroll check. Um, and those will hit your taxes differently. So, you can talk with your financial planner about different ways to reduce the tax burden. Like, you know, you can increase or decrease your 401k match, you know, 401k deduction for that paycheck and things like that. So, you I'm not a financial planner, but you can talk with them about stuff like that. From an employer's perspective, um, it does hit a little differently. So, in nonprofits and 990s, bonuses are listed out as a separate line item. I'm not so sure about corporate, but sometimes they keep it in a different pot of money, so it's a little bit easier to access. That's why I like to ask about both because sometimes there is fluidity between salary and bonuses, and at the end of the day, it's all money for you. All right. Uh, and then now that I work from home, I'm an individual contributor. I have not made connections for references. My best reference has retired and we last worked together in 2011. Who could I ask for a reference? Um, so that's a tough one. I think building your network is really important. Um, are there other is there like a professional network? Like say you're a technical writer and there's like a technical writers association. I'm not sure. I'm just making something up. but some other way that you can network with other people because you can absolutely have a peer as a reference. Um, often people will have one supervisor, one person they manage, and someone who's like a peer or a colleague. Um, either they've worked with or they've been in professional networks together. So, I would say in your case, I would really work to build your peer references. Um, and then you can also give each other recommendations on LinkedIn and things like that. So, that's what I would do there. Um, please drop more questions in the chat or Jinger. I don't know if people can go off mute. Um, but we can do that as well. So, yes, and I see that this was already already a lesson learned. If it does not in writing, it does not exist. Get everything in writing. But you do learn a lot about your future boss in negotiations. And if they're not willing to budge a little bit, they are not going to advocate for you for a raise or promotion and you'll probably be stuck at that salary and you'll fall behind in inflation. So that's something to consider. You will always have other options. There will always be a job out there that deserves you. So I do not believe in taking any offer. I mean obviously we have to finance our lives and fund our lives and that's real. But when you're coming to work with me as a client, we want to help you find that ideal job. So any other the Jack at Quiet, this is the time. Ask me all your weird specific questions. I I've probably heard it before and I'll drop this on here. I have a a freebie on here that is um five five phrases you should say in a salary negotiation to get the most amount of money. And then I also offer uh dream job coaching where I help people every step of the way through the job search of um how to identify the job they're looking for, interview prep, resume, cover letter, LinkedIn, and salary negotiation. Um I also do executive coaching for leaders. Um mostly first-time leaders who are managing a team and want to know how to lead from their values. Um okay. I'm curious how you specifically link this to leadership. Well, leaders still have to be paid. So as a leader who's uh who is um seeking out their next leadership position. So really knowing how to negotiate um especially you know once you're in the seauite there are different um benefits that can be accessed and so really knowing what to ask for and how to ask for that I think is really important. But also, I like to train leaders on all this stuff, too, so that they're open when their staff comes to them and wants to start that conversation about a raise or promotion or when their job applicant is saying, "Hey, you know, I'd love to I'd love to start a conversation about how we can increase this offer package and not feeling threatened by that, but that this is a collaborative conversation together." And so I think that in general, just eliminating the secrecy and shame around talking about money and self-worth at work helps us all be healthy, happier, and more prosperous in our lives. And so that's a big mission of mine. Um, with my love to my HR peeps, how can I get to the manager and around corporate HR when it comes to the package for the initial offer? Yeah, and that's really that's really tough depending on the situation. Also, sometimes if you're working with a recruiter, you can only uh work through the recruiter or the HR department. Um, so in those situations, you really can't uh go through them. You know, you have to go through them. You can't go around them. Um, and that will that's a big no no to go around the recruiter or the HR person who's making the direct offer. Um, I think, you know, definitely after your interviews, always thanking that hiring manager and everybody who's on those panels and things that are interviewing you, but then when you're actually doing the negotiation, just kind of honoring who you who they've chosen for you to work through, they will then go, you know, they will go talk to that manager, but they want you to work through that person. Um, oh, thank you, Hannah. I appreciate that. This is great. I love this. I learned so much. It's my favorite thing to talk about because I think that uh well, let's be honest, the men got to learn this stuff from other people. And so for women, it's really hard to access this information. And you know, all of my clients once they really learn this, they just feel so much more in control of their career and their finances and their lives. you know, and you deserve more and you can ask for it in a way that is respectful and encourages collaboration. So, you know, we, you know, when my staff come to me and they're looking to grow, I'm like, "Yes, let's do this. I'm so happy that you've chosen to want to grow your skills with me at this organization, and let's do that. and let's make sure that you are paid fairly for that increased responsibility and talent that you're bringing. So, any other final questions? I know I breeze through that, Ginger. Yes. No, that was great. I loved it. And yes, any any final um any final questions from all of our viewers today? Um my last slide is I wish you lots of money and career abundance. And um you can follow me on LinkedIn. I'm always sharing a lot of hot takes on LinkedIn of different things that I'm hearing in the job market and um you know the different things I'm hearing from my clients. But I just if I could just leave you with one thing, just know that you don't have to whisper that salary number. You can say it with pride and you're worth it. You just have to take the steps to do it. So um thank you so much for all the nice words in the chat and I would love to connect with you all. please connect with me on LinkedIn because I don't get to see your faces. So, um, but thank you Ginger for and, uh, Shelley for inviting me here and this was just lovely. So, thank you so much. Well, this has been fantastic. Thank you.